Jessica said...
Jessica, I want to first of all thank you for being willing to enter into this discussion.
Wow, you put pedophiles, polygamists and homosexuals in the same sentence. Polygamy seemed to be ok in biblical times (does that mean you believe we should reinstate it?), therefore I don't think you should compare it with homosexuality. It disgusts me that you would compare pedophilia to homosexuality. Pedophiles ruin lives (homosexuality doesn't?)! On the other hand, I know many men who choose to spend their lives with other men who are as happy and healthy as any heterosexual (that may be true, but does that mean it's not sinful?).
Well, in my posting to which she commented I had placed sexuality and sexual desire in the same category. Polygamy was common in the Old Testament, but that does not mean that it was a part of God's plan. Genesis states that a man leaves his family and cleaves to his wife and the two become one - that is a one on one relationship. Polygamy from all early Christian documents was not an accepted Christian practice, for the most part, and it can be argued as still being sinful. Now, you may argue that God still blessed people in polygamous relationships - true - Abraham had only one wife, Sarah, but "knew" Hagar because Sarah and Abraham did not trust God's promise enough and Ishmael was born which caused Abraham to have to send both Hagar and Ishmael out after when Isaac was a young child which is the beginning of the animosity between Israelis and Arabs. Now with the issue of pedophilia, I agree, it is disgusting and harmful and no one would ever say that it is not sinful, because it is most definitely a sin.
Which leads me to my next question. Do you know any gay people personally? (how disappointing already with the assumptions) Are you friends with anyone who has a partner, of the same sex, and has been in that relationship for years (here's the emotional argument, sin or not sin? that is the question)? If not, I challenge you to try and understand this lifestyle without trying to "convert" this person to heterosexuality. After all, I'm sure you have friends who are greedy, manipulative, jealous, or a number of other sins without trying to constantly change them or ostracize (who said anything about ostracizing?) them because of something you think is sinful (aren't we all sinful?). Unfortunately, so many people are just scared of gay people because they don't understand (fear is not the issue, isn't it about God's will or not God's will?).
This is the part that I always love within these arguments. If I don't "support" homosexuality by not saying it is sin then I must either never have known, don't know, or am afraid of homosexuals, well, sorry I have known many and know some now and we have interesting discussions, but unfortunately, as I discussed in an earlier post, because of the emotion that is held in this it is a topic which can't be discussed.
Why is this leap always made: sin=judgment & judgment=hate?
Sin does not speak to hate or ostricizing it is a state of being that we ALL are trapped in. Sin is sin gossip, in God's eyes, is as bad as murder. Now my issue is the idea of blessing sin. I will not bless gossip no more than I would bless murder. The discussion, as I say in the original post, has nothing to do with hate or dislike, but out of love. Oh, and the idea of "converting" anyone to me is a non-issue for me, that is the Holy Spirits work not mine. I can't convert someone to Christianity and I can't convert anyone in sexuality. I just don't buy into the lie. I have known people that have been hurt by homosexuality and have seen it tear apart lives also.
No, I'm not gay (what purpose does this comment serve?). I just appreciate diversity and will appreciate someone for who they are (as long as they agree with you).
3 comments:
Well, I have a really close friend who is gay. I think his choice to live that life is sinful, but you know, I love him. He is one of my closest friends! While I would not have him impose his beliefs on my young children (that is my job), I do trust him in many ways and I am certainly not "afraid" of him. He knows that we disagree on life and God issues, and he still chooses to be my close friend, too. I will continue to think that some of his actions are sinful, but I will not hate him. Why do some people think this is impossible? I can have a friend whom I love but disagree with! And my children are going to have to learn that there are people in the world that are different then them, whom they disagree with, but whom they can still love and be friends with, too.
My two cents. :-)
Here is the point. You believe that having more then one god is wrong yet you do not hold anti buddist rallies. You believe that praying to mary is wrong, yet you do not hold anti catholic rallies. You believe divorce is wrong, but you don't hold anti divorcee rallies. You believe that self-righteousness is wrong, yet you don't hold anti-fundimentalist rallies.
I believe that the evanglical church has singled out homosexuality simply because of the fact that it is something that few in the church will ever have to deal with. Why don't you deal with all of the massive problems in your own life and in the church before you take to things that don't effect you directly?
If the only goal of christian life is to force the world into righteousness, what makes us any differant from the pharisees, and what will keep us from being cut off of the tree?
by the way. answering peoples questions with questions might be a good way to have a debate in real life, but on the internet it just makes it look like you are mocking them and mocking people detracts from your opinions, in my opinion at least.
"When you say "diversity" you don't appreciate everyone, I don't believe, because you have placed a great judgment on me. You have made strong statements and hold preconceptions based on the fact that what I believe is contrary to what you believe."
I also don't believe this is a fair statement. As some one who believes in Christ, you are a representative for him, and you're actions reflect on the rest of us. While you may hold the correct opinion on the matter (it doesn't really matter as that is secondary) it is your actions that are being questioned. The point wasn't to judge your opinion about homosexuality, it was to make you question the validity of your actions in a biblical context.
I believe that as a believer, our first responsiblity is to identify our own sins, our second is to identify sins in the church. Paul talks to romans about homosexuality because in Rome it had become common practice for straight men and women to have sex with people of the same sex in acts of worship to the roman gods. Paul did not to to the Galations about the same thing, because it was not one of the issues of their church. In my opinion, unless this is a problem at your church or in your life, you should withhold judgement. To do otherwise, in my opinion, is counterproductive to the work of the gospel.
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